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Very interesting Matthias.
I remember when many of us were experimenting with ferrites on BNC cables between the Chord upscaler and the Chord DAVE DAC, there was a cut over point where the improvement max’ed out. At the time, I attributed it to the tradeoff between BNC length (longer was poorer) and ferrites count (more was better). The physical space required for ferrites seemed to drive the tradeoff.
The v3 cable is interesting because we can do more windings on the torroids as well, not just add ferrites
Of course, the most intriguing part of Eric’s work (for me) has been his ability to measure common mode noise and correlate that to SQ improvements. If I had the equipment, would be facinating to play with other cable filter configurations and see what frequency range my system is most sensitive to, and filter even more aggressively there.
Wonderful to have a measurable hypothesis that correlates with the empirical differences we hear. Alas, I no longer have access to lab equipment at work these days, so difficult for me to get a proper measurement setup going here.
Indeed, that would be a quick experiment. Has anyone done this stacking experiment with 2 v3’s (or a v2 + v3)?
I was thinking of a 10m ethernet cable, and doubling the windings on the torroids, but it would be much easier to A/B 1 vs 2 throttle cables (if that is audible, then time to think about a v4)
Got the last of my v3 parts in the mail today and assembled my cable. Significant benefit here, even with an Ian Canada powered/conditioned TP link wifi extender going to the Taiko Audio network stack.
With the WiFi extender I did not hear a difference between a generic Cat6a cable and my previous reference ethernet cable, but the difference with the v3 throttle cable is very clear.
Makes me wonder if more ferrite filtering is better in particular frequency ranges…is there such a thing as over filtering with common mode noise?
I have pretty good WiFi in my home (3 access points), so I wasn’t able to detect any signal attenuation (signal strength stayed „excellent“)
Originally my plan was to have the extender PCB mounted bare to the enclosure, but there wasn’t a convenient mounting point on the PCB. Instead I added standoffs to the lower plastic case. After that, I put the cover back on because the plastic tabs on the cover keep the extender PCB in place.
If you have a convenient way to mount the extender PCB direct to the case that would make things cleaner. Given all the experiments/hacks I did before getting my enclosure, this was the easiest (incremental) path for me.
As a quick update, I was able to do a test on my DAC cable between my audio router and my streamer, using 3 x Würth 74271142, 2 x Würth 74271142s , and 1 x Würth 74271111S (parts for the v3 throttle cable, while I wait for the rest of the parts)
The impact was definitely audible, but not a game changer. There is some benefit to be had here for sure (alas, cable is too stiff to wind around the torroids
I suspect 5-8x Wurth 74271633S could be beneficial here, but that experiment is for the future
Eric, for the v3 throttle cable, what was the rationale for the ferrites that you chose? The 74271633S pushes into higher frequency ranges, and there are other Wurth ferrites with higher impedance in that 70MHz range.
Alas, there are so many ferrites to chose from (and combinations with different impedance match and mismatch to consider), I’m curious about how amenable the filtering choices are to a data driven approach
Torsten, what I did was get the following from (US) Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D5B82V6K
This connects to slave on-off control input (J5). When the switch is in the off position, a voltage here turns the unit on, and no voltage turns the unit off.
I then used a USB brick on a switched outlet to turn it off overnight for charging, and have it on during the day
Other elements for my build for the combo of the Ian Canada mini battery + Ian Canada conditioner + the WR902AC (since tracking these things down for a first build is a pain, hopefully there are equivalents from local options in Europe)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PKKY8BX?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F9TP2GZ6?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CZ6WKTN5?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09XWS2FTM?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CCRXF1N7?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title
For the enclosure, I have one USB C input for charging, one switched USB C input for turning on and off, and ethernet output. I purchased standoff screws from Ian for the mini battery PCB, conditioner PCB, and the WR902 (I drilled mounting holes in the bottom of the case when I had the PCB out)
I am currently waiting on delivery of parts to build a v3 throttle cable. Looking forward to hearing what impact that has with the WR902
As an aside, note that Ian let me know that a new Pro version of the LiFEPO4 mini battery adapter is getting close to release, that support faster USB charging and have some other improvements
Thank you Eric. I have a 2m DAC cable that I will be experimenting with (maybe 15cm diameter is the tightest you can wind it, so no easy looping)
From previous experiments, there was a big benefit here in reducing power impulses from the NIC side (lower power consumption by the SFP, more network isolation to reduce packet volumes, look ahead caching of files to concentrate traffic -> better the sound quality).
My presumption there is some induced noise on the power or ground plane at the transceivers, and the Taiko preference for direct attach networking is related to that, but that is all speculation
That being said, I clearly (and unambiguously) hear the benefit of of common-mode noise reductions using the techniques you’ve detailed here. These seem to be complementary (and perhaps competing) optimization levers
Like Jawed, I was very active with trying to optimize digital transport with Chord DACs back in the day (ferrites on BNC cables, optical transceivers for isolation, shielding experiments, power optimizations, etc) I am getting a sense of deja vu with these discussions and experiences with ethernet, which is very interesting (see https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/audiowise-opto%E2%80%A2dx-optical-isolation-bridge-for-dual-spdif.23757/reviews#review-22155 for some experiences from 2019…I had forgotten about those Chromecast experiments!)
(with apologies again for intruding with English on this forum)
Thank you for the response. I was able to track down the issue to a flakey solder connection causing the wifi extender to get into a reboot cycle (multi-meter was able to integrate through the intermittant glitches).
Since addressing that, performance with the Ian Canada mini supply and conditioner has been outstanding (thank you for all the research with this solution)
Thank you Eric, my ferrites and chokes for the v3 throttle cable should arrive Friday, so I will be some crude tests with them on the DAC cable this weekend. I will report first impressions here
I am using the Taiko Audio network stack (Taiko Router, Taiko Switch, and a Taiko power distributor), feeding a Taiko Olympus. It continues to amaze me how much the network side impacts sound quality with this kit
(forgive English post, very much appreciate reading experiences here in translation)
I ordered the parts for the v3 cable and looking forward to experimenting with it on the connection to my audio router (the TL-WR902AC has been a fantastic addition here)
The connection from my audio router to my streamer is a direct attach cable (DAC). For Eric or others, has any experimented with similar common mode noise suppression on DACs vs ethernet?
(please forgive me posting in English, but I thought it less bad than posting machine translated German)
Folks,
I have been having wonderful results with the TL-WR902AC powered by battery, and wanted to take the next step to bypass the 5V -> 3.3V down converter and power my TL-WR902AC with 3.3V
I am running into a curious problem, and wanted to get advice here
I have 2 wires soldered to the appropriate pins on the serial interface on the PCB. When I power the extended via USB (5V), I read 3.3V on those wires (all good so far)
However, when I connect 3.3V power supply to those wires on the serial interface, my extender does not power up at all (nothing on LEDs, etc)
For those with version 4.x of the extender, has anyone successfully powered the extender with 3.3V to the serial interface?
Do I need to remove the 5V->3.3V regulator perhaps?
Any advice/leads appreciated (alas, I can’t trace leads on the PCB so difficult to debug)
Best wishes
Ray
