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Thank you for doing the experiment Eric! Looking forward to your findings after you’ve had more listening/tweaking time
At 100mbps, I was hearing more of the benefit I’ve come to love with the 902+battery+throttle cable solution – more resolution and depth, more relaxed, more perception of dynamics. The 10mpbs was muted/washed out (the auto negotiate version much more so)
I suspect the processing of the signal in the Taiko Router. This is the first time I’m experiencing that something that requires less power/processing/EMI on the 902 does not result in more of the goodness we’ve come to love with this solution.
A quick update here
I unfortunately was not able to directly connect my 902 @ 10mbps to my Taiko Olympus server. The NIC on the Olympus operates at 1gbps and would not connect with the 902. The 902 @ 10mbps streaming cleanly through the Taiko Router to the Taiko Switch to the Taiko Olympus (the router outputs 1gbps via DAC cable to the Taiko Switch, connecting to the Taiko Olympus NIC at 1gbps via a heavily ferrited DAC cable)
I was finally able to flash the minimal 100mbps v4 image on my 902’s (thank you to those that confirmed I had the latest image).
The 100mbps minimal image @5 GHz and 3.3V is a clear step up from the 10mbps minimal image when connected through my Taiko Router to my streamer.
Previously, the non autonegotiate 10mbps image performed significantly better for than the autonegotiate image so the Taiko Router clearly has some preferences for the input signal. I suspect it playing more nicely with the 100mbps ethernet input
As a win, the 902 with the 100mb minimal image ethernet signal is now clean enough that I no longer need the Taiko Switch in my chain (I’ve been working toward this milestone for quite some time, thank you Eric and everyone that has been working so diligently to clean up the ethernet side!)
Open next steps for me are to follow Bosko’s approach for 5GHz optimization (I have the Aruba AP as well), figure out how to reduce radio power on the minimal image, and explore WDS as time/skill allows.
Thank you Eric. I am having trouble with this v4 image on my 902 for some reason. It uploads just fine and flashes, but it gets stuck on 1 solid LED when booting, with me not able to ping or connect at 192.168.1.1 after switching my ethernet address to 192.168.1.66. Very odd. I have same issue with the tp_recovery-ALL-REMOVED-With-RELAYD image that you posted shortly before these images.
The 10mbps v4 minimal images (both auto negotiate and non auto negotiate) both work fine for me on this 902
I will try again in case I messed something up on the unzip or flash…
Hello Eric, yes I have tried (many times) removing some combination of the Taiko Router and Switch. I have been (and remain) very hopeful that upstream hygiene and isolation removes the need for these pieces of equipment in the chain.
Alas, they continue to be very impactful here (to say the least), but I have not yet retested with a 10mbps link. As an FYI, the power (and power quality) to the Taiko Router is shockingly impactful. The Taiko network stack does have a power splitter/filter (DC Distriburtor, or DCD) that takes a common supply to power both the router and the switch.
It seems to me that the WiFi isolation and the Taiko stack are working on complementary aspects of noise. You raise an interesting question about whether 10mbps benefit is lost though. Definitely on my list to revisit this listening test. I will report back when I do!
Thank you Bruno, very interesting. I ran my 902 AP and 902 client about 10cm apart, at 2mW radio power. Had occassional stuttering on Qobuz streaming, but generally stable. Interesting that you had issues when there was more physical separation (it may not like renegotiating a link?)
I will download that image and try again at 100mbps. Thank you for the pointer to the latest version, and confirmation that it is working for you!
PS. This is potentially a Pandora’s box, but if you are running two 902ACs, one as AP and one as client, I would love to se what happens if WDS or 802.11s protocols are used. Basically, they are supposed to create a completely transparent connection making the client act like a wireless switch where all the IPs are in the same IP subnet. I tried enabling it between the Aruba and the 902AC, but no luck (Even changed my main router’s (Fritzbox) IP to the openwrt range)
Way back in January Bosko posted the above.
I am just catching up on all the minimal image and 10mbps goodness and wanted to share my initial progress
Prior to this weekend, I was running the following:
902 OpenWRT AP (2.4GHz) battery pack powered
902 OpenWRT Client (2.4GHz) 3.3V with IanCanada Mini Pro, connected by WDS to 902 AP
Throttle cable v3
Taiko Audio Router -> Taiko Audio Switch -> Taiko Audio Olympus
This weekend, I set up my Aruba AP (powered by 12V from linear power supply) at 5GHz and experimented with the 10mbps images on the 902
For me, the non-negogiable image was the clear winner (a lot of the magic was lost with the negogiable image). Good news is that the Taiko Router worked with 10mbps!
Sound was excellent, but I have a sense that it may not be quite at the level I had when using WDS to connect two 902s to each other.
I tried to burn the v4 minimal image from January (presumably 100mbps) and I can upload and flash it, but it does not boot up for me. Does anyone have a link to the most recent minimal 100mbps image?
Eric, have you (or others) experimented with a WDS connection? Like Bosko, I’ve been unable to make 902 WDS work with the Aruba, but it does work for me to a 902 running OpenWRT. I believe the 10mbps images are using relayd?
Alas, I only have 2 902’s, so it is not a quick experiment to go back and forth between 2x 902s with WDS and the Aruba+902 10mbps client, but I will try to switch back to my original config to see if my memory is correct
Just catching up on the past many months of learnings/innovations. The 10mbps option look intriguing!
I’m not sure if my router/switch can handle 10mbps, I will try this weekend. Does someone have a pointer to the most current minimal 100mbps image? Would be good to have on hand to help debug if 10mpbs isn’t working
Appreciate the on-going innovation and discovery Eric!
I should also share, last weekend I was able to compare the Ian Canada 3.3V pro mini vs the 3.3V mini. The 3.3V pro mini is a significant step up here versus the 3.3V mini + UcConditioner. In fact, I prefered the 3.3V pro mini by itself vs the 3.3V pro mini + UcConditioner (a surprise)
For those looking for further improvement, I recommend checking out the 3.3V pro mini.
One caveat – my 3.3V pro mini developed issues after 3-4 days. I sent back to Canada and Ian was able to repair, but the cost of shipping is most of the cost of the supply itself, so it may be prudent to order a couple of the supplies and treat them as disposable if they fail.
I have had good results running a 902 access point and 902 client, both at 3.3V with Ian Canada supplies and OpenWRT. With OpenWRT, I’m running both radios at 1mW, with the 902’s in close proximity to each other.
There was a notable improvement here vs connecting to my home WiFi network (I attribute this to lower power radios, but that is a guess, not proven)
Next to experiment with the Aruba and the 902 in client mode, trying to replicate some of the findings shared here (and actually better understand the WiFi climate in my home…I have not analyzed this before)
Thank you Bosko, I was able to download PPT file. Fantastic to have a starting point to explore from (Aruba has a LOT of configuration options). Looking forward to this project!
Thank you for the photos! (and thank you in advance for sharing your Aruba configuration) I am very hopeful that your approach will help address some of the WiFi annoyances here
Ray
I love the lego stand! We audiophiles need much more lego’s in our lives (thank you for photo and link to antenna!)
External antenna for the 902 @ 5GHz is very intriguing. Do you have a link to the antenna you use? I’m trying to recall where the antenna mount point is on the 902.
I just got my Aruba IAP-325 AP working (vanilla) and about to start experimenting with various configs. I’m intrigued by the 5GHz feedback from Bosco and Chris and others, this could be very interesting (Bosco or others, if you have an Aruba config that is shareable, please do…would love to learn from the learnings you’ve had so far with the Aruba!)
Fantastic post @divinely !
I’ve always been drawn to these more security conscious digital kit, mainly because of the obsession on minimizing any correlated noise or any noise.
Your report makes me very tempted to revisit the AP side of my chain. I had a small but unambiguous improvement with a 902 on 3.3V running OpenWRT as my AP, but I have a relatively clean 2.4GHz environment. Love how you approached tuning things to eliminate the problems in your environment
