Drosselkabel

[rghanbari]

Thank you Eric.  I have a 2m DAC cable that I will be experimenting with (maybe 15cm diameter is the tightest you can wind it, so no easy looping)

From previous experiments, there was a big benefit here in reducing power impulses from the NIC side (lower power consumption by the SFP, more network isolation to reduce packet volumes, look ahead caching of files to concentrate traffic -> better the sound quality).

My presumption there is some induced noise on the power or ground plane at the transceivers, and the Taiko preference for direct attach networking is related to that, but that is all speculation

That being said, I clearly (and unambiguously) hear the benefit of of common-mode noise reductions using the techniques you’ve detailed here.  These seem to be complementary (and perhaps competing) optimization levers

Like Jawed, I was very active with trying to optimize digital transport with Chord DACs back in the day (ferrites on BNC cables, optical transceivers for isolation, shielding experiments, power optimizations, etc)  I am getting a sense of deja vu with these discussions and experiences with ethernet, which is very interesting (see https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/audiowise-opto%E2%80%A2dx-optical-isolation-bridge-for-dual-spdif.23757/reviews#review-22155 for some experiences from 2019…I had forgotten about those Chromecast experiments!)

(with apologies again for intruding with English on this forum)

[rghanbari]

As a quick update, I was able to do a test on my DAC cable between my audio router and my streamer, using 3 x Würth 74271142, 2 x Würth 74271142s , and 1 x Würth 74271111S (parts for the v3 throttle cable, while I wait for the rest of the parts)

The impact was definitely audible, but not a game changer.  There is some benefit to be had here for sure (alas, cable is too stiff to wind around the torroids

I suspect 5-8x Wurth 74271633S could be beneficial here, but that experiment is for the future

Eric, for the v3 throttle cable, what was the rationale for the ferrites that you chose?  The 74271633S pushes into higher frequency ranges, and there are other Wurth ferrites with higher impedance in that 70MHz range.

Alas, there are so many ferrites to chose from (and combinations with different impedance match and mismatch to consider), I’m curious about how amenable the filtering choices are to a data driven approach

[Thei]

Hallo Eric,

Wurde es kein Problem sein wenn ich das V3 drosselkabel in ein aluminium Gehäuse einbaue, zumbeispiel so eine schwarze Umbau wie man für die ZeroZone lps nimmt?

 

 

[Eric]

Hallo Thei,

das sollte unproblematisch sein.

Das ist ja genau das was Network Acoustics macht und dann ein 4-stelliges Preisschild anhängt.

Beste Grüße,

Eric

 

[rghanbari]

Got the last of my v3 parts in the mail today and assembled my cable.  Significant benefit here, even with an Ian Canada powered/conditioned TP link wifi extender going to the Taiko Audio network stack.

With the WiFi extender I did not hear a difference between a generic Cat6a cable and my previous reference ethernet cable, but the difference with the v3 throttle cable is very clear.

Makes me wonder if more ferrite filtering is better in particular frequency ranges…is there such a thing as over filtering with common mode noise?

[Mister G]

Hi Rghanbari

…is there such a thing as over filtering with common mode noise?

ich denke nein. Neben dem „verheizen“ von HF  ist die Impedanzerhöhung durch die Mehrfachwicklungen  der entscheidende Faktor. Die Störungen werden reflektiert bzw. gespiegelt. Das V3 ist diesbezüglich  sehr breitbandig ausgelegt. Die  Kaskade mehrerer Drosselkabel wäre einen Versuch wert. Eine Veränderung des Datentransports sollte nicht stattfinden.

viele Grüße

Matthias

 

[rghanbari]

Indeed, that would be a quick experiment.  Has anyone done this stacking experiment with 2 v3’s (or a v2 + v3)?

I was thinking of a 10m ethernet cable, and doubling the windings on the torroids, but it would be much easier to A/B 1 vs 2 throttle cables (if that is audible, then time to think about a v4)

 

[Mister G]

Hi Rghanbari,

Habe ein V1 Kabel aus der Anfangszeit vor meinem V3.

Warum ?

Ich konnte damals in der Entwicklungsphase das V3 probehören. ich war begeistert und habe dann mein eigenes gewickelt. Das klang aber erstmal irgendwie etwas „dünn“ gegenüber dem Testkabel. Dann fiel mir ein, dass ich mit dem Testkabel auch das V1 Kabel in der LAN Strecke hatte. Auch ein Experimentieren mit unterschiedliche LAN Kabeln vor dem V3 lässt kleine Unterschiede bemerkbar werden.

Die Frage ist jetzt, höre ich Unterschiede auf Grund eines Kabelklanges der vorgeschalteten LAN -Strippen oder ist es doch nochmal eine zusätzliche Filterwirkung des Ferrits?

Wenn ich noch Restbestände an Ferritklips hätte würde ich ein V2 oder V2,5 wickeln und mal vor das V3 hängen.

Weiterhin viel Erfolg in unserem kleinen Drosselcosmos

Matthias

[rghanbari]

Very interesting Matthias.

I remember when many of us were experimenting with ferrites on BNC cables between the Chord upscaler and the Chord DAVE DAC, there was a cut over point where the improvement max’ed out.  At the time, I attributed it to the tradeoff between BNC length (longer was poorer) and ferrites count (more was better).  The physical space required for ferrites seemed to drive the tradeoff.

The v3 cable is interesting because we can do more windings on the torroids as well, not just add ferrites

Of course, the most intriguing part of Eric’s work (for me) has been his ability to measure common mode noise and correlate that to SQ improvements.  If I had the equipment, would be facinating to play with other cable filter configurations and see what frequency range my system is most sensitive to, and filter even more aggressively there.

Wonderful to have a measurable hypothesis that correlates with the empirical differences we hear.  Alas, I no longer have access to lab equipment at work these days, so difficult for me to get a proper measurement setup going here.

 

[Autor]

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