[Bosko]

Hi Eric,

You are right, I also have a Fritzbox as my main router, and have been doing exactly that until a few weeks ago when I found out about this network isolation option on the Aruba. With the Guest option i could never isolate all the devices as some of them, like a security camera, nvidia shield… needed to remain on the main network. Now when it is 100% isolated I can’t say I hear any sound difference between the 2 options. It just makes me feel good:)

Cheers,

B.

[Bosko]

Hi Eric,

The dejitterit portal was simply beneficial as the proprietor extensively measured end explained why he uses the ARUBA IAP 325 in the modified kit he sells and why wifi 5 (ac) is the last „non-harmful“ (to cabling and equipment) technology. Luckily the Aruba and the AC902 use the ac wifi 5 technology:)

Also, if someone has only one access point in their listening area then the way to set it up is to create two SSIDs on this AP, one on a 5GHz and one on a 2,4GHz channel and give them separate credentials. Then use one of those SSIDs to connect to your TP Link and the other one for the phone (the controller). This will have no wifi interferrence as each SSID is on a different channel.

Actually, the Aruba has a really cool feature – one can block broadcasts from devices in the network. In other words, in my setup, the only broadcast that arrives to the TP Link is from the Roon server. Everything else is blocked. Even the phone (the controller) only communicates to the roon server. I literally have to give it clearance if I want to modify something on the TP link.

Cheers,

B.

[Bosko]

Forgot to mention in the previous post that now there is practically no difference in sound between Roon, Audirvana or UPNP. Before, when using a wired setup, the sound differences were quite obvious. Actually, I only hear the difference between Roon and UPNP, but this is on the level of comparing a wave file vs the flac version of the equivalent.

[Bosko]

Hi everyone, happy new year!

It’s been a while since my last post, but considering comments on using dedicated access point it seems like a perfect time to share my findings. First, a bit of context…

I had a total rollercoaster with my WR902AC and wifi streaming setup.  There was lots of joy, but also lots of anger and despair! I had two WR902ACs, one as an Access Point (stock firmware) and one as the client (openwrt) with Eric’s isolator and a throttle cable 3, feeding my PS audio junior DAC/streamer. The client WR902AC was powered by a xiaomi battery and streaming is done via a Roon ROCK NUC which is connected to ethernet in a room 15m away from the audio equipment. When everything was good, it was simply unbelievable how much of an improvement it was over an etherregen/network acoustics Eno combo…. the soundstage, the depth, the silence, the explosive dynamics and most of all a massive reduction of glare (Thank you Eric!).

BUT, there were hours when everything was just sublime and then suddenly it would become a disaster, the glare comes back, everything starts sounding brittle, and sometimes I would get stutters and dropouts. It was very discouraging, but after many months of tweaking and testing I have solved the issue and am posting it as it might be helpful for other forum members with similar symptoms.

If you sometimes have issues streaming high-res (192/24) content due to stuttering or drops, or feel that the sound changes while streaming to your WR902AC then read on …if not, go grab a beer and know that I am extremely jealous of you because you have a perfect wifi setup😊

Few months ago, I was listening to music and had the web interface of the access point WR902AC open. I was playing around with the access point signal strength and quite easily heard a change in sound. Originally, I had everything at the lowest setting but noticed that increasing the power made everything calmer and improved the bass response. I thought I was going crazy, but repeated the test the next day and noticed the same change in sound. Combining this experience with fluctuations in sound quality I assumed that a bad or an inadequate signal is making the client WR902AC work overtime causing additional noise in the signal. After switching through various 2,4GHz channels on certain days it was better and on others it was worse so I downloaded a WIFI Analyzer app for my phone. To my surprise, I realised that my living room is in a WIFI warzone! Only in the 2,4GHz spectrum I have 8 strong signals out of which 2 use 40 mhz channel width!

Considering this wifi chaos I decided to get a higher quality access point to be able to manouver through all this wifi chaos. Searching around the net I found the dejitterit web page (https://dejitterit.com/SwitchX/WiFiX.htm) where substantial work seems to have been done on identifying a quality access point for audio environment. Based on what I read on the page I decide to order a refurbished Aruba IAP 325. This access point has a steep learning curve as nothing is preset and it has tons of settings. After spending many hours on Aruba and Cisco forums I managed to get it to work properly.

The biggest benefit of this Aruba AP was that one can monitor the quality of the wifi transmission in much more detail than the standard signal strength and noise floor. What you can track is: frame per second THROUGHTPUT in both directions, frame per second RETRIES in both directions, frame per second DROPS, and frame per second ERRORS.

This was an eye opener as I saw a correlation between the RETRIES, DROPS and finally ERRORS with the sound fluctuations and stream dropouts. Even though, in the IT sector up to 20% frame per second (FPS) retries is considered normal, when it comes to audio streaming, trouble starts already at 5% retries rate where the sound starts becoming brittle and eventually leads to errors and stream dropouts. This makes perfect sense as Tidal, Qobuz, Roon all use TCP protocol as the transmission backbone and this protocol has zero error tolerance (no buffering like in Netflix or similar). I am not and IT person, but my assumption is that the sound fluctuates as the TP link is working overtime to put an error free stream together and eventually fails due to all the packet delays.

Since this revelation, I have only the TP link connected via wifi to the Aruba AP, have bought a fritxtender directioinal antenna, connected it to the TP link, found a 5 GHz channel that nobody uses in close proximity and with many, many tweaks in the Aruba AP, placement of both pieces for optimal signal, I managed to get zero RETRIES when streaming 44.1kHz/16bit, and less than 1% when streming 192 kHz/24bit (Tidal via Roon). Keep in mind that when streaming via Roon the files are uncompressed so it uses around 20% more bandwidth then when streaming direct from Tidal. To reduce interference, I am using a 20 MHz channel width and it gives more than enough speed for streaming. I did try the 40 MHz, and yes, it increased the speed, but it also made the signal slightly less stable. I even bought a second directional antenna to use in tandem with the existing one. It bought an extra 3db, but made it much harder to set proper orientation. Also, my conclusion is that the best sound comes from the channel with least interference. It does not matter whether it is 2,4 or 5 Ghz (the antenna power setting on my TP link is 6db on a 5ghz channel)

In summary, if you sometimes have issues streaming high-res (192/24) content due to stuttering or drops, or feel that the sound changes while streaming, my suggestion is:

1.      Get a wifi analiser on your phone and find a channel nobody is using

2.      Connect only the TP link client wirelessly to your AP (which should be on the channel not used by anybody)

If you live in an area without too much interference, these two steps could solve all the issues.

Hope this helps! And if there are any WFI/network engineers reading this, please chip in… this is all based on trial and error and hours reading up on workings of wifi.

Now I can finally start focusing on the power supply😊

[Bosko]

Hi Erik,

Thank you for taking the time to answer… I fully understand how much fun you are having with your apartment:)

While on the topic, can I also ask which side of the cable goes to the streamer? I assume, the one with less cable sticking out.

Cheers,

B.

[Bosko]

Hi Eric,

I’m about to order parts for the choke cable 2.5 and wanted to ask you which  length of the ethernet cable should I get for best fit. I don’t seem to find the length on the forum.

Thank you!

B.

[Bosko]

Hi Eric,

My isolators arrived yesterday… Love the packaging and the cables. Unfortunately we are planning on rearranging our living room and right now we are prototyping so everything is upside down and the stereo is not accessible. But, not to waste any time, I put them in series between the ont and the router to make sure they will be ready for testing when we return the living room to it’s original state.

Thank you for driving this topic, amazing effort… I’m truly grateful 🙏

Cheers,

B.

[Bosko]

Hi,

I have been using a hdplex 300w power supply for a few years now. It has two fixed and two variable rails. I cannot compare it to other LPS, but it works and it is built like a tank.  The nice thing is that when you change components you simply change the voltage setting and you are done. No need to buy a new power supply. I even have 2x12v fixed output instead of 19v + 12v.  All i did, was simply ask and they made the change.

https://hdplex.com/hdplex-fanless-300w-linear-power-supply-for-pc-audio-and-ce-device.html

KR,

B.

[Bosko]

Hello Reiner,

I also have the same router as you and have been powering it with an ifi x 12V, 2A power supply for a few years now without a single problem. Total of 17 clients on it, but a few functions are disabled: dect, media server and all my Lan ports except wan are limited to 100mbs.  Sound wise, it was not a massive improvement.

Kind regards,

Bosko

[Bosko]

Hi Eric,

I would definitely like to try the LAN isolator! Is it still possible to sign up? I am no good at PCB soldering… Is it possible to have it assembled?

Kind Regards,

B.

[Bosko]

Irgendetwas ist mit dem Übersetzer nicht in Ordnung und ich kann die „Span Style…“-Änderungen in der Nachricht nicht entfernen. Ich habe die Nachricht ein paar Mal erneut geöffnet und alle zusätzlichen Wörter gelöscht, aber beim erneuten Senden geht sie zurück.

[Bosko]

<span style=“vertical-align: inherit;“><span class=““ style=“vertical-align: inherit;“>Hallo Eric,</span></span>

Danke für die Antwort. Ich hatte befürchtet, dass du das sagen würdest:(

Derzeit hat jedes Gerät seine eigene Stromleitung, die nur am Sicherungskasten zusammengeführt wird (nur ER und NUC haben dieselbe Stromversorgung). Vielleicht ist das das Problem. Ich werde versuchen, einige der Geräte an derselben Leitung zu gruppieren, um zu sehen, ob ich die allgemeine Klangveränderung zwischen verschiedenen Verbindungskonfigurationen (Fritzbox, NUC, ER) reduzieren kann. Ich gehe davon aus, dass bei meinem Setup etwas wirklich nicht stimmt, wenn ich aufgrund von Änderungen an der Upstream-Konfiguration so große Klangschwankungen beobachte.

<span style=“vertical-align: inherit;“><span class=““ style=“vertical-align: inherit;“>Hallo Huber, </span></span>

Vielen Dank für den Vorschlag. Ich werde diese Option auf jeden Fall ausprobieren, wenn ich alle anderen Konfigurationsoptionen durchführe. Ich werde Sie wissen lassen, wie es läuft.

PS. Ich hoffe wirklich, dass der Weihnachtsmann meine Nachricht erhalten hat und mir die Ian Canada- und Chokekabelteile zu Weihnachten liefert:)

<span style=“vertical-align: inherit;“><span class=““ style=“vertical-align: inherit;“>Mit freundlichen Grüßen</span></span>

<span style=“vertical-align: inherit;“><span class=““ style=“vertical-align: inherit;“>Bosko</span></span>

[Bosko]

Hallo Eric und alle anderen,

Ich verfolge diese Seite und dieses Forum seit einigen Monaten. Ich kann nur sagen, dass der Klang von Ethernet endlich Sinn ergibt 🙂 und ich möchte Erik und allen anderen für ihre Beiträge zu diesem Thema wirklich danken. Ich schreibe auf Englisch und hoffe wirklich, dass die deutsche Übersetzung Sinn ergibt. Dies ist mein erster Beitrag hier, also entschuldige ich mich im Voraus für seine Länge.

Ich habe diese Seite gefunden, weil ich eines Tages Roon auf meinem Laptop installiert habe, um zu sehen, wovon alle reden, und der Ton über Roon deutlich schlechter war, als wenn ich die MConnect-App direkt mit meinem Streamer verwendet hätte (Laptop mit Etherregen-Switch zum Streamer verbunden). Als ich dann verschiedene Konfigurationen ausprobierte, wurde mir klar, dass das Streaming über Roon deutlich besser klang, wenn mein Laptop mit Roon Core über WLAN statt über Kabel verbunden war. Ich war verwirrt, weil alle schreiben, dass ein LAN-Kabel das Beste sei.

Außerdem habe ich mehr Geld für Ethernet-Kabel, audiophile Switches und Filter ausgegeben, als ich zugeben möchte, und bin zu dem Schluss gekommen, dass es bei Ethernet-Kabeln keine Regel für die Klangqualität gibt, die man von LAN-Kabeln erwarten würde, unabhängig von Kosten oder Cat-Typ. Wenn überhaupt, finde ich, dass ein ordentliches Cat6-Blue-Jeans-Kabel den beständigsten Klang liefert, während Cat7- oder Cat8-Kabel meiner Meinung nach extrem empfindlich auf die angeschlossene Ausrüstung und Platzierung reagieren. So hat es zumindest in meinem Setup funktioniert.

Nun, dies ist der einzige Ort im Internet, an dem ich mit der Suche nach Erklärungen zu meinen Fragen beginnen konnte!

Heute sind zwei TL-WR902AC V4 in meinem System. Gemäß den Anweisungen auf diesem Portal ist einer als Client eingerichtet und mit dem Streamer (mit einer Xiaomi-Batterie) verbunden, wobei ein mit Ferrit beladenes Cat6 UTP und ein AN ENO-Filter direkt vor dem Streamer verwendet werden. Der andere wird auch im Client-Modus verwendet, mit Strom versorgt von einem linearen Netzteil, aber mit einem Roon ROCK NUC, mit einem Etherregen zwischen dem TP-Link und dem NUC. Beide TP-Links sind über ein 2,4-GHz-WLAN mit einem Fritzbox 7590-Router verbunden, der die gesamte Wohnung verwaltet.

Zum Schluss noch meine Frage… Wenn ich bei der obigen Konfiguration die Verbindung des roon ROCK NUC zur FRitzbox ändere, ändert sich der Ton sehr hörbar. Dies sind die vier Optionen, die ich ausprobiert habe:

1. Fritzbox – wifi – TP Link – etherregen – NUC
2. Fritzbox – WLAN – TP Link – NUC
3. Fritzbox – lan – etherregen – NUC
4. Fritzbox – lan – NUC

Weiß jemand, warum diese Upstream-Änderung einen solchen Einfluss auf den Klang hat? Bedenken Sie, dass es auf der Streamer-Seite immer das gleiche Setup ist (Fritzbox – WLAN – TP Link – Streamer).

Vielen Dank im Voraus,

Bosko

[Autor]

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