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PS. This is potentially a Pandora’s box, but if you are running two 902ACs, one as AP and one as client, I would love to se what happens if WDS or 802.11s protocols are used. Basically, they are supposed to create a completely transparent connection making the client act like a wireless switch where all the IPs are in the same IP subnet. I tried enabling it between the Aruba and the 902AC, but no luck (Even changed my main router’s (Fritzbox) IP to the openwrt range)
Way back in January Bosko posted the above.
I am just catching up on all the minimal image and 10mbps goodness and wanted to share my initial progress
Prior to this weekend, I was running the following:
902 OpenWRT AP (2.4GHz) battery pack powered
902 OpenWRT Client (2.4GHz) 3.3V with IanCanada Mini Pro, connected by WDS to 902 AP
Throttle cable v3
Taiko Audio Router -> Taiko Audio Switch -> Taiko Audio Olympus
This weekend, I set up my Aruba AP (powered by 12V from linear power supply) at 5GHz and experimented with the 10mbps images on the 902
For me, the non-negogiable image was the clear winner (a lot of the magic was lost with the negogiable image). Good news is that the Taiko Router worked with 10mbps!
Sound was excellent, but I have a sense that it may not be quite at the level I had when using WDS to connect two 902s to each other.
I tried to burn the v4 minimal image from January (presumably 100mbps) and I can upload and flash it, but it does not boot up for me. Does anyone have a link to the most recent minimal 100mbps image?
Eric, have you (or others) experimented with a WDS connection? Like Bosko, I’ve been unable to make 902 WDS work with the Aruba, but it does work for me to a 902 running OpenWRT. I believe the 10mbps images are using relayd?
Alas, I only have 2 902’s, so it is not a quick experiment to go back and forth between 2x 902s with WDS and the Aruba+902 10mbps client, but I will try to switch back to my original config to see if my memory is correct
Hallo zusammen,
@rghanbari: i tried using WDS between a TL-WR802N as AP and a TL-WR902AC as client but although it worked when the two were in close proximity, it failed when I moved the TL-WR902AC to the „music room“.So far, the 10Mb image does not work in my situation (streamer’s own limitation), and I have to find a way to keep my streamer reachable when using the 100Mb image. Regarding this one, the version I am using is the one that can be found here: https://ethernet-sound.com/forums/topic/tp-link-tl-wr902ac/page/25/, which to the best of my knowledge is the most recent one.
All the best,
BrunoThank you Bruno, very interesting. I ran my 902 AP and 902 client about 10cm apart, at 2mW radio power. Had occassional stuttering on Qobuz streaming, but generally stable. Interesting that you had issues when there was more physical separation (it may not like renegotiating a link?)
I will download that image and try again at 100mbps. Thank you for the pointer to the latest version, and confirmation that it is working for you!
Hallo zusammen,
@rghanbari: Hast Du mal den Taiko Router und Switche aus der Kette genommen und das verglichen? Soweit ich das verstehe hast Du nach der galvanischen Trennung mit dem WR902AC nochmal einen Router mit Netzteil und dann einen Switch mit Netzteil – das macht für mich keinen Sinn ehrlich gesagt. Auch wenn der Router mit 10mbit mit dem WR902AC kommuniziert, bedeutet das nicht, das dein Streamer mit 10MBit spricht. Das kannst Du nur durch das letzte Gerät vor dem Streamer sicherstellen.
@bosko: Hallo Bosko, leider sind beim Backup-einspielen einige Deiner wertvollen Posts gelöscht worden. Du hattest beschrieben, wie Du WDS zum Laufen bekommen hast. Kannst Du das nochmal posten? Sorry, dafür!Beste Grüsse,
Eric
Hello Eric, yes I have tried (many times) removing some combination of the Taiko Router and Switch. I have been (and remain) very hopeful that upstream hygiene and isolation removes the need for these pieces of equipment in the chain.
Alas, they continue to be very impactful here (to say the least), but I have not yet retested with a 10mbps link. As an FYI, the power (and power quality) to the Taiko Router is shockingly impactful. The Taiko network stack does have a power splitter/filter (DC Distriburtor, or DCD) that takes a common supply to power both the router and the switch.
It seems to me that the WiFi isolation and the Taiko stack are working on complementary aspects of noise. You raise an interesting question about whether 10mbps benefit is lost though. Definitely on my list to revisit this listening test. I will report back when I do!
Hallo @rghanbari,
das mit den 10 MBit solltest Du auf jeden Fall noch einmal überprüfen. Das hebt das Ganze meiner Meinung nach noch einmal auf ein ganz anderes Level.
Leider habe ich aktuell sehr wenig Zeit, sodass ich selbst keinen ausführlichen Artikel dazu zusammenbekomme.
Ich höre aktuell mit dem WR902AC mit dem 10-MBit-Image und der EVE MB31, die gefühlt schon eine Ewigkeit läuft und bisher noch nicht geladen werden musste. Für mich ist das aktuell die optimale Lösung, da ich damit eine vollständige Trennung vom Stromnetz erreiche. So sauber lässt sich das meiner Meinung nach mit keiner anderen Lösung umsetzen – egal, wie gut oder teuer sie gemacht ist.
Hinzu kommt, dass ich selbst mit den Ian-Canada-Lösungen bereits einen Kurzschluss hatte, der einen Brand hätte auslösen können. Von daher kann ich auf solche Lösungen mittlerweile auch komplett verzichten.
Das Einzige, was ich vielleicht noch einmal testen und anschließend auch messen werde, ist das Thema WDS.
Beste Grüsse,
Eric
Hallo zusammen,
@rghanbari: you are welcome. Glad to help, as little as it might be, around this great place!And now that you mention it, I am not sure if it was the distance or my streamer, which does not like a 10Mb network…
Hallo zusammen,
ich habe gestern mal eine WDS Strecke aufgebaut mit einem WR902AC mit OpenWRT (Original Image) als Access Point und dem WR902AC als Client (minimal 10base T Image). 5GHz WiFi Netz. Das Klangbild hat sich in der Tat leicht verändert. Es wurde wieder etwas schärfer und nervöser. Ich werde das nochmal genauer untersuchen und mich melden.
Beste Grüße,
Eric
Thank you for doing the experiment Eric! Looking forward to your findings after you’ve had more listening/tweaking time
<p style=“text-align: left;“>Hi,</p>
Only saw the messages today… vacation time. Don’t have my pc with me to share the details for WDS setup. It is relatively simple, one only has to enable WDS on both, the sta (client) and the ap, and assign fixed IPs to both (on same subnet as the rest of your audio network). A truly minimal image is possible, without even relayd. Finally, a true, dumb switch like functionality is possible with all unnecessary components disabled/ removed. Also, as WDS is integral to openwrt you can enable it in existing minimal images Eric shared, the 100mbs and 10mbs. No need to develop new ones. Only drawback with wds is that it is a true backhaul so it works best in single ap, single client setups. Your control tablet or phone will have to be on a separate ssid. I’ve been running the WDS setup for almost half a year and have zero issues. CPU usage below 2% for decompressed 14/44 audio. What I did learn through WDS optimisation is that the wr902ac is really not a good access point. Literally, getting a cudy wr1300 V3 for around 30 euro will significantly reduce retries and CPU usage. Btw, had WDS active with the 10mbs minimal image and it worked, but there were issues with my streamer so I’m back at 100mbs. Hope I managed to shed some light. Also, keep in mind that a small change in orientation of the wr902ac can completely change the quality of the WiFi signal and the subsequent amount of retries.Cheers,
B.
<p style=“text-align: left;“>Eric,</p>
Running WDS with the 10mb image, for the same audio stream, the number of packets increased from 5000 to 30000 per minute, significantly increasing the CPU usage! It did sound really good, but the link was not stable and CPU spiking was quite evident (probably what you’re mentioning as jitter) I blamed this on the streamer not being fully compatible with 10mbs.B.
Hallo Bosko,
Vielen Dank für Deinen Beitrag!
Interessant Deine Findings bzgl. der CPU Auslastung bei WDS.
Das würde jedenfalls meinen bisherigen Hörergebnisse erklären.
Wenn ich wieder Zeit habe, versuche ich das mal mit dem Messinstrumenten zu erkunden.Beste Grüsse,
Eric
Been a while, but now I am here again 😀
Just want to ask the Forum if battery power or a Studer900 LPSU is better suited for the 902V4?
I am running it on the Studer and the sound is gorgeous 😀
est KnockKnock
Hallo Knock Knock,
wenn Du eine saubere 5V Quelle als Batterie hast, dann ist Batterie überlegen aufgrund der kompletten Trennung vom Stomnetz.
Beste Grüße,
Eric
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